'Businessman' perspective?
Bonny Doon has been quietly moving into the biodynamic (BioD) realm for several years. Apparently they’re now ready to go “whole hog” into that dark realm…
(Bonny Doon's statement)
I’ve enjoyed their wines in the past, and imagine I will continue to like them – provided they don’t radically spiral downward in quality, or start releasing Brett contaminated wines.
Bonny Doon has made it’s mark by being different, both in the wine blends they offer and in their fun loving philosophy. Not because it’s BioD.
I predict that we as consumers won’t experience any positive changes from their use of “horn manure” or “horn quartz”, because it’s based on superstition, flawed logic and bad science.
Caveman…I think you’ve missed a few posts!
Look at these: Santeria, BioD email, Jphelps BioD-like
…this is a big kettle of fish. Aside from the spiritual flakiness that I agree is a part of the whole biodynamic philosophy, the practical manifestations of this type of agricultural practice is at it's base organic.
Exactly the point I’ve made in my previous posts.
And if large producers use less pesticides, fungicides, chemical soil additives, and sulfites then that is a good thing for everybody.We can argue wether or not it makes better wine, but it does make interesting wine.
Again, all points I’ve made previously. And I won’t argue that the wines aren’t interesting, and my previous posts on BioD make my favor of environmentally responsible sustainable organic farming quite obvious.
You are obviously first and foremost taking a 'businessman' perspective on the wine industry, an underlying current of this movement is about community and respect. Normal people buying and thus supporting local growers, restaurants using local ingredients and creating regional cooking traditions, but above all, a respect for the environment as a whole.
Bullshit.
One doesn’t need some voodoo system to have respect for the community, or to adopt responsible agricultural practices. And I have never found it useful or logical for anyone to separate their business perspective from their community or environmental perspectives (myself included).
However, I will point out how stupid it would be to allocate funds in one’s business plan for some system so riddled with holes, that it couldn’t possibly influence your final product. The whole idea of burying powdered quartz in a cow’s horn for 6 months – then spraying it onto the leaves of your vines to “capture more solar energy”…
Do you know why? Joly reveals it in his book!
Because quartz “sparkles” and therefore – get this! – must contain sunlight within the crystal!
They ignore the fact that crystals reflect light for that ‘sparkle’ effect, and by spreading it on top of their foliage they’re potentially reducing the amount of solar radiation the vine’s are actually exposed to. Pretty crappy thinking from my point of view.
In fact, I’d argue that it’s just as bad as some of the science the Bush administration tries to use to justify it’s environmental policies with.
Really, you don’t have to embrace BioD to eschew the use of pesticides and have a more encompassing view of your winemaking techniques & it’s interplay with the community and environment.
This is a concept which the american government has effectively pissed upon (as being one of the few governments to outrightly refuse Kyoto, and rolling back important safeguards). Their view seems to be..'well it is not great for me so fuck the rest of you.'A fantastic role model for all. While Joly can be a bit of a flake and there are obvious holes in the biodynamic philosophy, if it's followers become a little more respectful and a little nicer, hell, why not, they've harmed a lot less people than those waiving the banner of Jesus. Caveman
I agree with your thoughts about George W.’s lack of leadership on environmental issues.
I have no need to bring religion into this. There are some who would argue that it’s essentially “new age secularism”, but I don’t need any such arguments to defeat BioD.
And “if it’s followers become a little more respectful and a little nicer” ? I must assume this is in regard to their relationship with the environment – because I’ve had some quite heated arguments with it’s adherents…and they were neither respectful nor nice from my perspective…
In summary, I believe that agri-business (viticulture & winemaking included) should be conducted with respect to the environment by adopting the following:
- Organic farming techniques
- Embracing environmentally responsible, sustainable agricultural practices
- Integrated pest management, utilize natural pest predators
- Minimize the use of pesticides & herbicides with the long-term goal of their elimination
- Respect for the environment and community (including neighbors) of the operations in question
The Emperor has no clothes on. I hope this helps clear up my views.
Labels: biodynamic
posted by Anonymous at 11:36 AM
6 Comments:
Huge,
Now that's a response. Thanks for clairifying your position. I have not read all your posts, but if I ever do misrepresent any of your thougts, feel free to tell me.
Listen, bio-dynamic agriculture goes far beyond Joly. Steinart, Maria Thun and the rest of it’s grand practioners have invested many years in it’s study and development and I have personally seen some interesting results from it’s usage. Believe it or not there do exist a number of scientific studies that show practical benefits of quartz. Perhaps when fermented it can attain more beneficial properties. But who cares, either you believe it or you don't. But as my wife remarked, who while grounded in science taught a course in bio-dynamics at an agricultural college, it is about intentions. I guess this is where spirituality comes into the mix, and that too is not a bad thing. It is always good to believe in things. (This is where my religion allusion comes into the fray).
A bio-dynamic approach forces you to be more observant, forces to you to concentrate, and perhaps this is one of it’s greatest benefits. The calendar allows for a structure by which to approach the maintenance of your land, and maybe plants like kids appreciate a more structured environment.
I for one do not follow most bio-dynamic principles, but I can say the part of my garden that I have used 100% bio-dynamic, cow-horned, witch ordained compost has continually been the most productive part of my land. Weird, but true.
And I despite what you may think, I believe the majority of people who go to the trouble of following many of these principles are doing it for reasons other than marketing.
In honor of your post we drank a bio-dynamic Vouvray, Le Mont, from SA Huet with our mussels… exceptional.
Easy,
Caveman
Huge, just because it sounds crazy doesn't mean it doesn't work. If farmers say they can tell the difference, who cares if they plant the horn? Sure it gets annoying once the mystical language of BioD merges with the mystical language of the wine tasting, but if it tastes better, again, who cares? (I can't afford that shit anyway, so I leave it to my betters).
I've been enjoying your stuff, even if I don't agree with it.
Huge,
I have not read Joly's book and look forward to your review. If there is a branch of winemaking to perhaps examine a little closer, and this is to an extent is related to bio-d, it is les Vin de Nature. Indigenous yeasts, minimal if no sulfites, etc... Often the proponents of this type of viniculture are, or at least are sympathetic, to the bio-d gang. These wines are both distinct and different, and as I alluded to in a previous comment, part of a new way of approaching winemaking.
Hope all is well, see you in the coven.
Caveman
Dear Huge,
Sorry I’m a bit late with this, but I thought you were quite charitable with Caveman’s rather Stone Age views. I would have been much harsher, as I believe this kind of ideological cave dwelling is much more dangerous. Please note how quickly the discussion deteriorates from wine to politics to reckless and angry ideological banter (the evil “businessman,” hmm what’s next Kristallnacht.) This is, of course, the point of my last post. Underlying biodynamics is a fairly radical political agenda that, like all good propaganda, is easier to sell to the masses if you can unhitch it from the pillar of reason, and clearly Caveman is unhitched. My suggestion for Caveman’s “kettle of fish” is to put it over the fire. In this case we might consider the application of these guidelines from 18th century philosopher David Hume, who argued that it is “unreasonable to believe testimonies of alleged miraculous events.”
"If we take in our hands any volume of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance, let us ask, 'Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity and number?' No. 'Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact existence?' No. Commit it to the flames, for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."
Best regards,
Tuco
And the pot continues to boil. I too was raised with, and still have, a healthy dose of scepticism. However, by calling all those who do not live their lives by applying the scientific method, as witches, fools etc, is a the type of intolerant fool that i have a tough time tolerating. Tuco, you have to do better than waxing 19th century philosophy. Some things remain unexplainable, and while i do not shun scientific testing of anything (like UC Davis di with the 'observations' of Maria Thun..which turned out to be inconclusive), I also don't take the position that if it ain't proved, it don't work. The reality is that millions are spent testing OGM and the effects of pesticides and the rest, but little time and money has been spent on the testing of many of the bio-d asssertions. Tuco, live a little on the unknown side, it might loosen you up a bit.
Huge, if you don't believe, then don't. I don't see how if some people are moving in this direction, this can have such a drag on your being (but i do love Monty Python). Loof at it as the theatre of the absurd and like the bio-d's, observe and laugh, but like always search for the hidden truths.
And in terms of the wines, the last time i checked, Romanee Conti was pretty damn good (bio-d since 93)
Caveman
Hi Huge,
This will be my last posting on the subject but as host I will obviously offer up last crack at the pinatta to you.
First, I love all philosophy, and embrace all types of forward thinking. There is something for everybody wether you be a bio-d follower, hardened logician or even a nazi, sister loving uberman. I just found Tuco's complaints a little myopic.
I applaud UCD for going out and testing these observations, and inconclusive is not, unless I am mistaken, inconclusive is not a synonym for unfounded. I would love to see more research and energy put into both organic and bio-dynamic agriculture... as opposed to the hundreds of millions being poured into the chemical industry. I think we both agree that the time is now that we move towards a more environmentally friendly, and more respectful relationship with our planet.
And this is perhaps my attachment to the bio-d movement. At it’s base is an understood respect for the land that we cultivate, the animals that raise, and the necessity to replenish what we take. And if someone chooses to simply follow the calendar, or take whatever part of the system that they feel will work for them, then I support them. It is a good lesson for all, after all, it does not infringe on my liberty to do as I wish. There are obvious zealots, as with any movement, but the majority of the people that I know who practice this type of agriculture approach me with the same respect that they do their land.
Insofar as starting a bio-d blog, I already have a blog and will do a special on bio-d next month as a gang of the wackos are coming to montreal at the end of february. I’ll let you know when it’s up.
Caveman
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